Learn From It

You people would rather live in South Africa than America?

With respect to same-sex marriages and life for gay people, what, in your mind, makes America better?

When did I say America was better with respect to same-sex marriages and life for gay people?

I'm just curiuos if you'd rather live there.

Accidently commeneted on wrong thread...this is the on I meant to post on. Hopefully, with more nations recognizing human rights over prejudiced "fundies" the US will catch on.

What human rights are you deprived of Bryan?

What country are you living in Holding? Cause if you have to ask that question, you shouldn't be commenting like that in the first place.

In America.

Why are you avoiding the question? What human rights have you been depreived of?

I hear the weather in Sun City is quite lovely. Perhaps I'll add it to my list of places to emigrate to once the AFA and the CFV successfully convert the US to the extremist theocracy they intend this nation to be.

I'd love to get ahold of the Toll guys and get them together and pay them to play together. someone get ahold of me.
eastatlanta@comcast.net

chris

It's heartening to see that some people, somewhere, are actually working to make the world the way it should be.

In case you can't read, I'm not the one that said I was deprived, and for the record, I do not feel as if I need to get into another debate in which you don't back up your statements with actual fact. For instance, here in Texas, Proposition 2 just passed, which, at the most basic level, illegalizes and invalidates all same sex marriage. It also calls into question alimony payments, child support payments, joint insurance claims among other issues.

So, to answer your question, why does America find it necessary to prohibit people from coming together in a civil union, marriage, or common law marriage? After all, isn't the right to love somone a basic choice, and isn't choice a fundamental human right?

Kevin,
You insinuated that you were deprived of human rights. I asked you which ones. Is that too complicated for you to understand?

As for getting into another debate without facts, until now, I have yet to see you provide any. I did last saturday, but somehow your "host" lost my comment that proved both you and GodOfBiscuits wrong.

I reposted a cite and I've noticed both you and the GodofBiscuits have avoided the thread since then. Why? Perhaps it's me that should avoid another debate with you since you won't follow through.

Anyhow, how the hell can I bring facts to the table on this thread when all I've done is asked two questions.

I asked would you rather live in South Africa and what human rights you feel deprived of. No opinion, no nothing yet. Just curiosity. Why does that upset you?

I insinuated nothing of the sort. I am merely stating that if you cannot see the limitations, restrictions, and prejudices plaguing the many peoples of this so called "Land of the Free" then you need to go take a good hard look at our society.

I already stated one issue of restricted rights, since your so intent on "proving me wrong". What upsets me is that you are so narrow minded that you cannot see past your front door. Take a look around, go to a homeless shelter, or a shelter for abused women and tell me everyone there has the same rights. Go look at the gay population and tell me that they are like everyone else. That is my challenge. Show me that every person in this country has the same rights and privlidges bestowed to every other man, woman, child, gay, lesbian, transgendered, black, white, latino, et cetera in this United States.

I responded to your post in the other thread, and stated a reason for not posting again. And if you want to try to force your opinions on others (because thats exactly what your doing right? Trying to prove us wrong to make yourself feel superior?) Why don't you go find your own blog to rant in.

And to answer your question, No, I would rather live here but that decision has little relevance to the current "discussion" as there are a myriad of factors that go into you finding and loving the place where you live.

"Holding", you have so far yet to take me up on my offer to personally post whatever it is you wrote.

I told you I never got it. And....OMG, I *NEVER* got it. Imagine that.

On the other hand, if you think you can trust me so little with the things you write, then why post here at all, knowing I can alter your text and there's nothing you can do about it?

Because honestly, you know I wouldn't do that. And this whole thing is a red herring.

Oh, and your cite is from 2003. And it doesn't draw any lines between the 'gay culture' you assert is infecting the rest of the world and the D.L. culture. And experimenting. And lying. And self-identification.

But then, you're bringing it up on a different thread altogether. Stick to the topic or don't post.

Kev,

So by "stating that if you cannot see the limitations, restrictions, and prejudices plaguing the many peoples of this so called "Land of the Free" then you need to go take a good hard look at our society", you are not suggesting the deprivation of any human rights?

Well if that's so, isn't this a moot point? So what you are saying, by your own deduction, is that you are limited freedoms not human rights?

"I already stated one issue of restricted rights, since your so intent on "proving me wrong". What upsets me is that you are so narrow minded that you cannot see past your front door. Take a look around, go to a homeless shelter, or a shelter for abused women and tell me everyone there has the same rights. Go look at the gay population and tell me that they are like everyone else. That is my challenge. Show me that every person in this country has the same rights and privlidges bestowed to every other man, woman, child, gay, lesbian, transgendered, black, white, latino, et cetera in this United States."

How many assumptions can you make in this thread? I have yet to state an opinion on rights and gays in America, I've only made inquiries of your own opinion.

Would you like to know my opinion? I'll be happy to share it.

""Holding", you have so far yet to take me up on my offer to personally post whatever it is you wrote."

I didn't save it, your host did. Doesn't matter anyhow, it was simply a more lengthy presentation of what I posted yesterday that proves gay males in America are the largest group for spreading HIV/AIDS. You deny the truth out of self-defenseness. All I was trying to say in that thread is that since gay males are the most responsible party for spreading Aids, I wish they'd conduct themselves appropriately in regards to safe sex.There was never any condemnation of the gay man, unless you twisted it to appear that way.

"if you think you can trust me so little with the things you write, then why post here at all, knowing I can alter your text and there's nothing you can do about it?"

The only time I have been censored was that one post. I already apologized to you in the case it was your host, not you, that made the error. Nothing of mine has ever been altered or edited, just one comment not posted. It was a host error, I suppose and we'll leave it at that.

"Oh, and your cite is from 2003. And it doesn't draw any lines between the 'gay culture' you assert is infecting the rest of the world and the D.L. culture."

Does yours with the African American claim that I never saw a link to? As for being off topic, I've always been on topic until you and Kevin inquired and refeered to the previous one. I have no qualms with staying on topic so long as you hold everyone else to the same.

Now, would you like to hear my opinion on gays and rights in America?

My host DIDN'T save it. How many times do I have to say it?

You apologize and then keep insisting that somehow something sinister was going on and I was the culprit. Passive-aggressive bullshit.

ll I was trying to say in that thread is that since gay males are the most responsible party for spreading Aids, I wish they'd conduct themselves appropriately in regards to safe sex.

You have YET to produce any evidence to this. So shut up about it until you do. Your URL didn't address your statement.

There was never any condemnation of the gay man, unless you twisted it to appear that way.

You said this. You actually said this. And after you've accused gay men of ignoring safer sex guidelines and infecting the rest of the non-gay world. No, no condemnation there AT ALL. You're the twisted one, if for nothing else than what passes as condemnation.

I never made any assertions except that it wasn't gay men that were the fastest-rising group of infections, that it was, in CA, African-American women. And I pointed you at the offices to go find out for yourself. That's all I asserted and in fact, it wasn't an assertion, it was a reference.

You know how to use google, right? Here's a link for you, after, ohhh, 3 or 4 minutes of looking around, 95% of that actually within the office of AIDS in the CA Health Services website.

http://www.dhs.ca.gov/ps/ooa/Resources/PDF/AfricanAm012304.pdf

Now, would you like to hear my opinion on gays and rights in America?

Actually, you're already seething with animosity towards gays in most of the things you say.

"My host DIDN'T save it. How many times do I have to say it?"

Yes,your host did save it. Your host specifically stated that the comment was saved but would not be posted until you reviewed it in order to curb maliscous comments.. Etc. Etc.

"You have YET to produce any evidence to this. So shut up about it until you do. Your URL didn't address your statement."

I have proved it to be so. You're in a state of denail of the FACTS. For your convenience, since following the thread on your own and interpreting the data provided was too much to ask, I just copied and pasted it on the World Aids thread.

"And after you've accused gay men of ignoring safer sex guidelines and infecting the rest of the non-gay world. No, no condemnation there AT ALL. You're the twisted one, if for nothing else than what passes as condemnation."

You're personal feelings are clouding your judgement. As I've said and PROVEN, gay males here in America are responsible for the more infections of HIV than any other group. You tried to pass the buck onto black women, unsuccessfully. By the way, where's the link? Until I see it, that's just heresay.

And yes, it is time for you all, as a culture, to start taking safe sex more seriously. Those are the facts, if the truth is a condemnation to you, then so be it.

"Actually, you're already seething with animosity towards gays in most of the things you say."

If I were you, I'd tell you to prove it. Humors me to see you go from quoting my statement that gay males as a culture are irresponsible wih safe sex and the spread of HIV to now calling me a hater. Never cry wolf, my poor friend. Never cry wolf.

I suppose I should jump aboard your bandwagon now and claim you hate black people since you cited black women as the most responsible?

Truth is, it's you that has seethed with hate for me since my first comment, solely because the truth offends you. It's also clear that you hate Christians. Your hate speech for them can be found on nearly every other post on this blog.

Never cry wolf.

I'm quite frankly tired of talking in circles with you. My name is Kevin, not Kev if you don't mind. You have some unstated bias toward gays, and it clearly shows through what you write. Also, you done nothing but make assumptions on gays and gay rights. So if you want to pick apart my post trying your hardest to find flaws to exploit to your own means go right ahead. But I belive GodOfBiscuits still has a question for you. And unless something profound gets posted, im tired of fighting with you. So congratulations, you win, does that make you feel better that your right, because isn't that what your going for?.

What assumption.

I proved my point, thank you.

What have you brought to the table other than citing GodOfBiscuits heresay on black women?

Thanks for the post on South Africa. Of course I'm overwhelmed with happiness to my S.A. mates back in Cape Town. However there is a underlying sadness which is the S.A gov't irresponsibility in the education and prevention of HIV infections and distribution of AIDS drugs. On the one hand a victory for human rights, on the other a step back into the middle ages. Disturbing.

JM

thanks for the update on south africa. it always disappoints me a little that other countries are becoming the land of equality that most non-americans believe america to be: canada, south africa, the netherlands, sweden...hell even catholic spain recognizes that gays and lesbians are equal. thanks g.o.b. for this post!

You tried to pass the buck onto black women, unsuccessfully.

What have you brought to the table other than citing GodOfBiscuits heresay on black women?

Your assumptions here betray a terrible bias against gay men and against HIV infection.

I am not BLAMING black women for anything. I am *concerned* that African-American women are the group with the highest *increase* in HIV infection rates.

http://www.blackwomenshealth.com/HIV_AIDS.htm
http://www.4woman.gov/minority/aahiv.cfm
http://www.womenshealth.gov/HIV/world.cfm
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A3318-2005Feb6.html
http://www.mysistahs.org/health/HIV/ywoc.htm
http://www.caps.ucsf.edu/womenrev.html
http://www.niaid.nih.gov/factsheets/womenhiv.htm
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0MJV/is_4_10/ai_n6138580

Or, just go and check the rest of the google references yourself:
http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=african+american+women+HIV+infection&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

from the findarticles.com reference above:

In the early 1980s, HIV/AIDS was considered mostly a gay white male disease in the United States. Today, the pandemic has expanded and the disease is also a major health problem in the African American community, where men and women of every age and sexual orientation are affected (http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/ pubs/Facts/afam.htm).

I am not looking to blame ANYONE. You are, however. I'm concerned and worried that infection rates for African American women are increasing so fast and would like to know the CAUSE. Not to blame, but to fucking STOP new infections.

You, on the other hand, seem to have an anti-gay agenda.

Now...go do some fucking homework YOURSELF, "Holding", before you come back and spew.

Denial.

Yeah, I was right. Pathetic.

You wanted references. You wanted me to do the work for you and point out your broad and baseless assertions.

I did both. The URLs are there to read.

Or were you talking to yourself?