Learn From It

You claim that you are "all for renewal and reinvention, remaking and restarting: I've certainly done it myself enough times" and then turn around and mock those, like myself, that are reborn.

I'm unsure how to react. I find it offensive of course, but my intial anger has subsided to an acceptance of your anger rather than my own.

I hope your new method helps you find peace with yourself.

Being born again was a rebirth for me. Different strokes for different folks.

Mock? Hardly.

I vehemently disagree on the premise of being reborn. You're not you anymore if you are "reborn", and if you are still you, you've not been reborn, you just put a stake in the ground and divided your existing life in a Before and an After.

You seem to have a tainted predispostion towards those like myself that have been reborn.

Why?

What's wrong with my own renewal? My own reinvention? My own remaking? My own restarting?

No one can prove or disprove the subjective experience of another. That's the mystery of consciousness itself.

Thus, I can't know what your renewal was like, but I can infer from the history and subsequent behavior of people like Jimmy Swaggart that it is used as a "get out of public-opinion jail free" card.

"Those like yourself"? How about YOU yourself? You make assertions about gay men that are bigoted and untrue. What am I to infer of the "rebirth" of one who says things like that?

So the basis for your entire argument on reborn christians is founded on your tainted opinion of Jimmy Swaggart?

One man? Your analysis of millions is based on one man? Please tell me you're not serious. Or that naive.

I do find it revealing of your bias that while you mock my remaking, you've commended Kevin's in an earlier thread.

I'm sure you can think of any number of people who lay claim to a rebirth or renewal without having done any sort of work at it or otherwise earned it.

I'm SURE you can. Jimmy Swaggart is simply one with a high enough profile that he serves as a good illustration.

You DO know the difference between an example and a conclusion, do you not?

When you use that example to draw your conclusion, what's the difference?

It’s an erroneous conclusion resulting from either your predisposition or intellectual dishonesty.

I did not use the example to draw a conclusion. I used it as an example of an observation.

You're starting to show your true colors. Good.

My true colors?

How about your own. Like your refusal to post my comment from saturday on the other thread or specify what you refute so I can reply?

Prove it, "Holding".

I even offered to publish it FOR you if you email me the reply. Don't be dense. I only refuse to allow those entries which are from anonymous (no valid email) cowards and from those who make accusations of illegalities to ANYONE (myself or people who come here to make trouble).

On the defensive again, I see. Now it's you that's showing his true colors. Good.

Why is it you ignored my question above in regards to how you mock my remaking while you congratulate Kevin on his?

Does a restart only count for a coming out?

While you're at it, since you're so into proving things, I'd like to see you prove your own assertions that I made assertions about gay men that are bigoted and untrue.

What have I said that's untrue? What have I said that it bigoted?

You can't prove a universal negative. How can I show what's not there? All I can do is let you republish whatever you said, or, you can email it to me and I will sheperd it myself right into place.

You made the assertions. You provide proof. Or leave.

I didn't use any example to draw a conclusion.

I've made any number of observations, and i *illustrated* my observations with a well-known example.

See how the observation comes BEFORE the example?

Somehow, once again, you've managed to avoid directly answering any of my questions. You ever consider being a politician? Or a lawyer perhaps?

Never mind, that'd require a suitable education.

"The question here is, why aren't YOU into being able to support the things you stay?"

I challange you to name one of these things, as you call them, that I haven't supported.

Name one thing.

One.

Seriously, are you learning impaired?

I've answered them more than once.

You know, there's a difference between having your question answered and being supplied with the specific answer you want.

I challange you to name one of these things, as you call them, that I haven't supported.

Oh, so now you're suddenly, actually remembering the things you said?

According to you, wouldn't I have to go back and tell you what you said before I go ahead and tell you which ones I challenge?

This news is awesome...thanks for sharing it. Hopefully, the US will catch up to the more progressive nations.

You can't name one, can you?

Didn't answer my question, huh?

Do you know which of your assertions were contested or not?

YES or NO.

You never asked that question before. Everything you ask I go to great lengths to reply, if I'm able. You could learn from that.

But to answer the question you asked just now, no. I have no idea what assertion you contest.

You're pathetic.

That you made ANY assertions at all—especially ones as contentious as you did—without already having references to back up your own small opinions, is ridiculous.

So you don't know which things you said are backed by real data and which are just baseless blatherings?

I'm pathetic?

How pathetic is it for a person to be unable to articulate what they contest?

Tell me what you find so contentious and I'll address it.

You ignored my questions again.

Why is it you ignored my question above in regards to how you mock my remaking while you congratulate Kevin on his?

Does a restart only count for a coming out?

While you're at it, since you're so into proving things, I'd like to see you prove your own assertions that I made assertions about gay men that are bigoted and untrue.

What have I said that's untrue? What have I said that it bigoted?

I did NOT ignore your question. I answered it: I did not draw a conclusion FROM the example.

I also answered your question about restarting: that the subjective experience of another is in no way measurable or observable objectively and directly, that one could only infer subjectivity. And an example of one from whom I infer that a "rebirth" didn't actually happen and was only a politically-motivated reset switch was Jimmy Swaggart.

See? inferences happen, and lead to a statable observation. And in the list of those in whom I have observed this behavior, I used Jimmy Swaggart as an example of the observation.

You said: "since you're so into proving things". The question here is, why aren't YOU into being able to support the things you stay?

When it comes to new beginnings, especially around new year's day, I like to use another word other than "resolution", which sounds so final: so black and white.

The word I use is "intention." Therefore, I have New Year's intentions.

Holding, how pathetic is it for a person to make broad, damning, monolithic statements about a group of people and not remember they actually said so, and not have anything to back it up with?

You're intellectually LAZY, Holding.