Learn From It

I'm with you on most of those. Seeing as I'm Catholic, I'm counting on the existance of God most of the time. If I were woman forced to choose, I would choose birth, even if I then gave the baby up for adoption. And as well as all that, I know that like you, I couldn't hold a meaningful conversation about String Theory, I don't think I would ever have the urge to. Sheesh...you nerds and your wacky antics...

But other that those, I fear I'm as much in the dark as you.

it's not about being forced to choose, except being forced by circumstance.

It's interesting that "Pro Life" people will trust a woman/girl with a child, but not with making decisions for her own life. That's the crux of why I think the Pro Life movement is really just Pro Birth.

I think that several if not all of these are true for most folks in the world. It's not as if there is some book we can read, so place we can go, or some person we can talk to that will instantly (or even slowly) enlighten us. We just have to live our lives, and take the lessons that come, learn from them, and hope others will share the lessons they learned.

It's interesting that you corroborate my point even as you spend so many paragraphs trying to refute it.

What about the woman who is poor and who is hungry? What about the kids who are the same? What about those who have fallen on hard times?

If those people die—or worse, suffer every day—you care a whole lot less because they didn't manage to keep themselves alive. You care a whole lot less because they opted not to swallow the whole religion thing before swallowing a spoonful of soup. If they failed to keep themselves fed and sheltered and alive, well, they're probably just lazy and don't deserve a government "handout", right?

You're so busy preventing abortions that you can't even see that there's more to life than being born, and that there are worse things in life than being dead.

Well, if you read the post I left for you earlier, you might notice that I wasn't talking about which people deserve what. Actually, I'm not sure that I even understand what your comment has to do with my rebuttal of your claims.

You accused me, and my fellow pro-lifers, of not caring for women, whether they go through with their pregnancy or have an abortion.

I replied and informed you that actually that's one of the things we do most, and that it's pro-choicers who can accept nothing but abortion, and care nothing for the woman, only her money.

So then you reply and accuse us of not caring for the homeless and hungry and non-religious.

To reiterate my previous statement: that accusation is both untrue and irrelevant. I don't know where you got the idea that I thought it my God-given mission to only love the people who fit my predetirmined parameters, but I assure you that it's as wrong as it is insulting. Not to mention it was completely off topic.

Here are some simple questions, in case you need some guidelines during your inevitable response.

Do you agree or disagree with my assertion that you were wrong? Can you find any people who both provide abortion and care for the mother? And although I agree that there is more to life that birth, is not birth a crucial part of the life of all people you've met?

Actually, M.A., you went off on a specific tangent when I was talking about entire lifetimes.

Syllogistically, you may claim that Pro-Lifers are also Pro-Birth and you'd be right, but that has nothing to do with my observation that so many right wingers are pro-birth, and NOT ALSO Pro-Life, in that they seem to love the fetus, but despise those post-adolescent people who dare need assistance from their government.

I swear it's like you're some belt-wielding, discipline-mongering, fear-inducing father who provides only basic sustenance for their children—along with whatever kind of discipline it takes—UNTIL IT'S TIME TO LEAVE THE NEST. Then they're booted to the curb, expected to take care of themselves without assistance.

I ask you if you care about people for their lifetimes and your initial comment was specific only to pregnant women and newborns.

I'll ask you again...don't you care about real people in real need in this country and there being a safety net and a second chance for those people?

Vescere bracis meis

Are you coming on to me, M.A.?

HAHAHA!!! *wipes tear of mirth from eye*

Ah, I was hoping you would catch that sooner or later. But, no, I'm not coming onto you. I know it might get a bit hazy in translation and perhaps seem a little more...suggestive if you use the wrong synonyms, but what I meant was "Eat my shorts." *snort* Ah, I do love how even that phrase sounds so elegant and prestigious when said in Latin. I *so* glad you didn't let it go by unnoticed. You pass the test with flying colors.

Heh heh heh...hooray for Latin nerds!!!

But to return to our decidedly less amusing debate: Yes.

(Hopefully I'll post a more in depth response over the weekend or on Monday. Sorry.)

Biscuits, behold.

In case you had not noticed, being born is a vital part of most lives. To be pro-life is also to be pro-birth, so I think pro-lifers are aptly named in that regard.

And in any case, it's a futile argument to say that we don't care for the mother, or care for either the mother or the baby after birth. In several aspects. It's both unfounded and absurd.

There are hundreds of Catholic orphanages and adoption services, and just as many crisis pregnancy centers and thousands of families willing to take in single moms or people who have fallen on hard times. There are vast fortunes of donations that are spent each year even to care for the women who don't have their child any more. Yes, even women who have had abortions are welcome. All of this is free for any woman who might need it. It's what we do.

On the other hand, when you hear the people from the abortion provider's side of things talk about the help the offer women, ask them: "If a pregnant fifteen-year-old girl comes into your clinic with no money, no one to help her, no home to go to, and no desire to have an abortion, what services does you facility provide for her?" The answer will be none, no matter where you are. Abortionists don't offer help; they sell abortion to whoever can pay the price. I dare you do just do a little bit of research to see who is doing the most, at the lowest cost and in the most caring way, to help pregnant women, post-abortive women, and single moms. I have no doubts about what you'll discover.

And furthermore, even *if* we actually didn't care for the mother, that doesn't mean we're not wrong. It's possible to point out an injustice even when one does not provide a solution. People could say slavery is wrong even if they can't afford to buy their freedom. A man can say it is wrong for his neighbor to beat his wife, even if he isn't in a position to marry her. If a woman chooses not to volunteer to adopt her neighbor's three children, does this disqualify her from saying she thinks it would be wrong for her neighbor to kill the three kids?

Reductio ad absurdum. Vescere bracis meis.

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