Learn From It

Like you fucking care. You're just jumping on the media sensation and lapping the kool-aid with the rest.

Once again, the liberals use the troops to exploit their bedroom politics.

It's really disgusting how low you'll stoop to promote your own agenda.

Like I care? most of the time you're calling liberals bleeding hearts who can't face cruel realities of death and violence and guns, and now you say I don't "fucking care"?

Talking out of both sides of your ass again.

Your site uses the troops all the time to hide the multitude of crap you put out.

In fact, you just used the troops again to make a hop to liberals' "bedroom politics"? Yikes. You're gonna need some creme for those stretchmarks.

I feel so sorry for those soldiers, most of them from small town America trying to serve long enough to get money to go off to college or hoping to learn some job skill that won't be outsourced soon. I wonder whether we will ever reach a turning point when enough Americans say "Enough dead kids" and turn against their lousy leaders.

The fact that the response to the chant of "Down with Bush" is "Support our Troops" solidifies that at least one side equates "troop support" with "Bush support." Reading this post reminded me - again - of that fallacy.

I keep stumbling over the same block in my head whenever I read of someone's issues about The War as such. Yes, I oppose the war and do not approve of the job Dumbya or Crummy are doing. But that is not to say I "don't support the troops." I am disgusted by our foreign policy, but that doesn't mean I hate soldiers or what they're doing (I just dislike ~why~ they're there).

That Crummy didn't put pen to paper was rather cheap, and he got his (in his own way) when troops hit him with questions that weren't quite cookie-cutter: "Why the hand-me-downs? Why the favoritisms?" etc. I had to chortle when he responded as if to say "I'm an old man! Take it easy!"

*raspberries*

"Rumsfeld and the other spinless clowns of the Bushitler regime didn't have time to serve during wartime."

Potoato Patriot,
Time to do your homework, douchebag. Rumsfeld is a retired Naval Aviator that served from mid fifties to the late seventies and retired a Captain. Bush was a fighter pilot in the National Guard during Vietnam. That's what you call serving during Wartime. Duh?

Bush got to stay stateside during Vietnam. He never fought in battle.

Rumsfeld never fought in battle, either.

By your "logic", Gordon, I guess Sam served in the Air Force during Wartime, so he's just as qualified as Bush and Rumsfeld to claim "Wartime experience"?

Even you know what he meant. You just don't have any other defense except to pick apart the literal wording.

And thank you for continuing to be an easy example, Gordon.

I find it amazing that Gordon could come here and present himself as such a conservobot shill.
Rumsfeld and the other spinless clowns of the Bushitler regime didn't have time to serve during wartime. And your appointed leader deserted during wartime.
If it were up to the liberals, we wouldn't be in Iraq...Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11, remember??
Most of those soldiers would be at home raising their families, contributing to this failing economy and, most of all, living.

Gordon, wake up....there is more to life than conservobotism. You and your ilk define how low scum will go to promote an agenda.

Gordon, Gordon, Gordon....even your sorry excuse of a defense is wrong. Secretary of Defense Don Rumsfeld - served in the U.S. Navy (1954-57) as an aviator and flight instructor. The only conflict we were involved in at that time was some 30 military observers Eisenhower put in Viet Nam. Rumsfeld was 17 years short of being able to retire from the military.
Don't believe me?? Go here....what ever I say and wherever I say it, I will always have credible data and sources to validate my claims. Can I see the source of Rumsfeld's retirement?

http://www.awolbush.com/whoserved.html

Mr. Rumsfeld attended Princeton University on academic and NROTC scholarships (A.B., 1954) and served in the U.S. Navy (1954-57) as an aviator and flight instructor. In 1957, he transferred to the Ready Reserve and continued his Naval service in flying and administrative assignments as a drilling reservist until 1975. He transferred to the Standby Reserve when he became Secretary of Defense in 1975 and to the Retired Reserve with the rank of Captain in 1989.

You're half right, cunthead. I was mistaken about how LONG he served. It was until 1989, not the mid seventies. Thanks for the correction.

What next? This is too easy ladies.

Gordon, he fought in battle *when*?

And are you saying that you think it's not worth it to hand-sign condolence letters for dead soldiers?

My, how you do get off topic.

Something smells here Gordon. You left 3/4 of the evidence out. With all these overseas, out of country assignments how did he fulfill his monthly military obligations?? Looks like we may have another deserter in the government.
And if he was truly in the Ready Reserve why didn't he get his ass to Nam??

You are too easy, Gordon.

n 1957, he came to Washington, DC to serve as Administrative Assistant to a Congressman. After a stint with an investment banking firm, he was elected to the U.S. House of Representatives from Illinois in 1962, at the age of 30, and was re-elected in 1964, 1966, and 1968.

Mr. Rumsfeld resigned from Congress in 1969 during his fourth term to join the President's Cabinet. From 1969 to 1970, he served as Director of the Office of Economic Opportunity and Assistant to the President. From 1971 to 1972, he was Counsellor to the President and Director of the Economic Stabilization Program. In 1973, he left Washington, DC, to serve as U.S. Ambassador to the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) in Brussels, Belgium (1973-1974).

In August 1974, he was called back to Washington, DC, to serve as Chairman of the transition to the Presidency of Gerald R. Ford. He then became Chief of Staff of the White House and a member of the President's Cabinet (1974-1975). He served as the 13th U.S. Secretary of Defense, the youngest in the country's history (1975-1977).

From 1977 to 1985 he served as Chief Executive Officer, President, and then Chairman of G.D. Searle & Co., a worldwide pharmaceutical company. The successful turnaround there earned him awards as the Outstanding Chief Executive Officer in the Pharmaceutical Industry from the Wall Street Transcript (1980) and Financial World (1981). From 1985 to 1990 he was in private business.

I think we should check out his service records, too. He may be an absconder like his boss. Another true chickenhawk.

"I noticed you didn't define it, Gordon."

I didn't think it necessary. Although obnoxious, you're typically an intelligent man with a flair for being verbous. I find it baffling that you're so confused that I have to define it for you. But for your sake......

dur·ing ( P ) Pronunciation Key (drng, dyr-)
prep.
Throughout the course or duration of: suffered food shortages during the war.
At some time in: was born during a blizzard.

war·time ( P ) Pronunciation Key (wôrtm)
n.
A period during which a war is in progress.

Now add one plus one and you'll get two. Or do you need me too explain how they work together as well?

You clearly set out to imply they had battle experience.
No, I didn't whatsoever. Your judgement was simply clouded by your emotion. I simply countered that both had served during wartime - which they did. I'm right, you and the "Patriot" are wrong. It's that simple. I know for a fact that GW served during wartime although he's not a combat veteran. As for Rummy, I have no idea if there's green ink in his logbook or not. Do you?

No, I didn't whatsoever.

You're pathetic. Why would you bother with "during wartime" if you meant to imply nothing?

These prima facie fallacies of yours were tired a long time ago. They serve no purpose other than for you to kick up some noise so that the real issue is never addressed.

"You're pathetic."

I'm pathetic? Ha! Pathetic is watching you and the Couch Patriot backpedal on the definition of having "served during wartime" and your slander of Bush and Rummy. Pathetic is hearing a man that never raised his right arm critisize those that have, in war or peace.

"Why would you bother with "during wartime" if you meant to imply nothing?"

You're wrong AGAIN. The Couch Patriot brought it up and I corrected first him, than you. Take note of how this thread eveolves:

"Rumsfeld and the other spinless clowns of the Bushitler regime didn't have time to serve during wartime."
Posted by Progressive Patriot at 22 december 2004 07:10

Get it? He brought it up and you bpth tried to defend it and were proven wrong. Simple huh?

"These prima facie fallacies of yours were tired a long time ago. They serve no purpose other than for you to kick up some noise so that the real issue is never addressed."

Fallacy? Where, when? Prove it. Then you say I'm making big noise and avoiding the issue? Reread the thread MOTO and you'll see that the Couch Patriot and you, as I've clearly illustrated above, got off track. You're just pissed that I'm right and you're wrong. You lack humility.

But I do find it amusing that you're debate is reduced to ad hom attacks like your last comment. You got nothing.

Now is there anyhting else I can debate you about before you and the Couch Patriot got off track? What specifically would you like to discuss?

You KNEW what he meant by 'during wartime', and you took your typical crooked righthand turn into literalism so that you couldn't just say, "yeah, these guys never fought in a battle."

You couldn't just concede that neither of these guys ever fought in combat, and that it was a slimy thing to do to have an auto-pen sign a condolence letter.

The dead deserve better.

Say those things here and now, directly, and we're right back ON track, gordon.

Well Sam and God of Bisquits,
Gordon is throwing the typical winger angle on, in order, to hide the fact that his heroes are actually cowards and one, a known deserter.
I wonder what would have happened if I wouldn't have shown up for Grenada or Lebanon?? Would I be president today?? Nope, I'm not a republican.
He is a typical waste of time conservobot. The type that you find 'in the rear with the gear'.

ProgressivePatriot, there are many "typicals" about Gordon and Geoff. And me. And Sam. And you, i'd wager.

Using that angle on anyone makes everyone a little less human. yes, i've done it in the past when provoked. And I know that provocation is Geoff's & Gordon's Bread & Circuses and I stooped to the bait.

Gordon is a much more vocal defender of the notion of "supporting our troops" than I am, and this time, he seems to have crossed his own line , ironically using the very same tactics he uses to keep better thinkers busy with stupid details.

I just got done saying the dead deserve better. and they do. But the living deserve more.

I'm willing to pony up with more respect. I hope Gordon's willing to do the same. If not, well, it will quickly be back to business as usual.

ProgressivePatriot, let's stick to the arguments and away from the argumenters. At least for now.

All I'm doing is pointing out your errors, Potato Patriot.

To be blunt, you're full of shit and I just caught you in your tangled web of lies.

You stated that neither Rummy or the President served during wartime.

You are wrong on both counts. Case closed bitch.

Go do your homework and come back when you're ready - I'll be waiting to serve up the next bitchslap.

Yeah, Gordon, you're also ignoring anything you can't so easily defend.

Define "during wartime", Gordon. Be specific.

Unlike the "Patriot", you haven't said anything worth replying to.

As for having served during wartime, it seems straight forward. Is that somehow confusiong to you?

I noticed you didn't define it, Gordon.

You clearly set out to imply they had battle experience.

and you know better. it's just that your argument is stupid without the implication.

I served during wartime. But I was really in San Francisco at gay dance parties, writhing to electronic breakbeats. I have the utmost respect for those who actually went over to the middle east. Dozens of my friends are there right now. But I can't give people respect for simply "serving during wartime" because then I'd have to respect all the schmucks out there who are just like me. They just happened to be in the military when shit went down. If they didn't go to war, they shouldn't try to get the glory, and they don't deserve the same respect as those who were there. It's an insult to the soldiers who actually were.